Curse

rebirthofdragon · Jan 10, 2007, 01:11 AM // 01:11

I really want a Sin for some reason, I guess I just can't help but think of the potential from all those skills, but by the time I make it to the mainland I'm so bored with the Sin I can't help but delete it.

So far I've tried an A/Me that ended up just using Sin skills and Arcane Echo for Death's Charge (I decided against Phys/Elemental Resistance because of the varied damage). The problem was not getting into the battle but surviving it. Even using Death's Charge and Dark Escape to run in and then escape damage, I found that with higher level foes I would either only deal 75% damage or get killed if I stick around for the kill.

Then I tried A/R and remembered why I hate using bows (too slow). Apart from the bow, none of the ranger skills provided any sort of advantage and I died just as fast. I tried getting a pet, hoping it would distract the enemy. So, at level 16 I got myself a lvl 11 Aggressive Tiger. Sadly, the tiger lived while I died and I was left with a strictly inferior build.

But I really want a Sin! I'm thinking of either making an A/W with Wild Blow to maintain Critical Defenses (which I hope will help some) or go A/E and use Armor of Earth (and maybe Kinetic Armor) to boost armor and compensate the speed loss by shadow stepping.

I'd appreciate any input of keeping my sin alive. In the mean time I'm gonna get him up to the point where he has to choose.

Franco Power · Jan 10, 2007, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Try to find a monk in PvE that doesn't use healing breeze and prot spirits you?

Now seriously, I think you could always use shadow of haste to teleport back to safety if you are close to dieing, or activate dark escape and feigned neutrality (+70 or 80 armor cant remember and 7 regen) and just run to safety, Its really not that hard to play sin if you just watch whats happening, dont spam dual attacks with spoil victor or empathy on you and you should be fine.

rebirthofdragon · Jan 10, 2007, 01:40 AM // 01:40

I forgot to mention that I don't have NF yet.

Darkpower Alchemist · Jan 10, 2007, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Your problem sounds more like you want to be a primary damage dealer, and it isn't working. I could be wrong, but let me tell you about my sin.

I started with my sin as a A/R, used daggers and did well, but people hated the sin more then than even now. Every sin was a monk's burden in the beginning. So,I went to Crit strike ranger, and that was fine, but you know you want to use the daggers...so it's like taking your favorite toy and shelfing it because no one else likes it.

So, then I made an A/Mo, used Live Vicariously and Vigorous Spirit, bought some max damage zealous daggers, and life got good again.

High critical strike plus fast attacks made my lil sin into a force to be reckoned with. He wasn't a tank, but he was even better at surviving afterwards. Treat it like a wammo, let them hate that you use an enchant to stay alive more, but have fun.

Dutch Masterr · Jan 10, 2007, 01:56 AM // 01:56

dont get all fancy with your assassin builds. it sounds like you have a problem with choosing your targets correctly. you dont really need actual defence, you just need good escapes. the point in an assassin is to take down a single target in a small amount of time, then run out, recharge and prepare for your next spike...that means you should be having 5-6 skill combos, a heal like shadow refuge and an escape. from my expirience, the best assassin builds consist of all sin skills...some good elites you should get are aura of displacement and palm strike...for pve this is what i use...

leaping mantis sting, wild strike, death blossom, palm strike, critical strike, return, shadow refuge, dash. (keep in mind this is fo pve and would be useless in pvp). 8 shadow arts, 15 dagger, 12 critical strikes...use zealous daggers of fortitude

this build has no conditions but is meant for assisting in spike targets like monks, and the combo has a quick recharge to deal continual damage since you will be switching targets all the time.

and always remember, you are not a tank and you do not want to have anything target you. stay in the back and wait for a group to be aggroed and then run in and take down distracted targets...bassicaly "assassinate" your targets. catch primary targets (usually casters) off guard and kill them fast.

Crazyvietguy · Jan 10, 2007, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Dutch is right, if you play your assassin right you will love it. Always hit the squishes (Monks, Elementalists, Mesmers, Ritualists, Necromancers). If you are playing with henchies send them in first then pick a target. I personally love assassins and hardly get bored. Search the forums for fun builds.

I use: Leaping Mantis Sting, Jungle Strike, Twisting Fangs, Palm Strike [E], Horns of the Ox - those are my attack skills with that entire chain any monk/ele/ritualist should be dead.
Other skills: Critical Eye, Shadow Refuge, Dark Escape
Before the moment in use Critical Eye. After you complete a combo, IF and only if your first 2 skills are recharged and your above 75% health you can move on to another enemy, if not use Dark Escape to run away and regen with Shadow Refuge

rebirthofdragon · Jan 10, 2007, 04:40 AM // 04:40

What you seem to be saying is that, first and foremost, a sin must be a sin. A monk shouldn't start casting mesmer hexes, and a sin should stick primarily to its own skills. That makes sense to me.

Luckily I already got zealous 15^50 +30 daggers from a guildie, so I'm going to get Return and see how it works out.

The other thing that keeps bothering me is the whole Lead>Off-hand>Dual. On a warrior I can use Executioner's Strike even If Eviscerate isn't charged up, but here I have to wait for skills to recharge before I can do much of anything. A's Promise comes to mind, but will I just have to learn to deal with it?

Thom Bangalter · Jan 10, 2007, 04:54 AM // 04:54

There are multiple reasons they're disliked:

1) in an straight up full team battle, warriors have more mileage due to dps, armor, and skills.

2) most people play them poorly. Tanking mobs on a sin is bad. No one cares if you teleport back that much either, because it screws up aggro quite a bit and draws things back further than most teams would like. A survivor title != groups, either.

3) high AL mobs make their autoattacking fairly worthless, and no monk likes spending all their energy just to keep the 70 AL schmuck with sundering daggers up while he takes on a couple oni.

lightblade · Jan 10, 2007, 07:14 AM // 07:14

I too have the same problem..but..none of the following 3 reasons discribes me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

There are multiple reasons they're disliked:

1) in an straight up full team battle, warriors have more mileage due to dps, armor, and skills.

2) most people play them poorly. Tanking mobs on a sin is bad. No one cares if you teleport back that much either, because it screws up aggro quite a bit and draws things back further than most teams would like. A survivor title != groups, either.

3) high AL mobs make their autoattacking fairly worthless, and no monk likes spending all their energy just to keep the 70 AL schmuck with sundering daggers up while he takes on a couple oni.

The reason that the interest in Assassin diminish so quickly is that there aren't many variety of builds to play with. Once you get to one that work, you generally just stick to it and never change again. Then it start to get boring.

Effendi Westland · Jan 10, 2007, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Also note that the explosion effect from the afflicted is cold damage. I found mantra of cold very useful in cantha.

Utaku · Jan 10, 2007, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

3) high AL mobs make their autoattacking fairly worthless, and no monk likes spending all their energy just to keep the 70 AL schmuck with sundering daggers up while he takes on a couple oni.

A sin that needs to auto-attack has a poor build. Sin do paper damage just attacking, their build should allow them to use attack skills at every single swing. This way High AL is not a problem, as +x damage from attack skills ignore armor.

Imho, a sin build should have energy management attack skills such as Black Lotus Strike and/or the dual attack Critical strike.
Plus in pve, as mobs die quick, you should choose attack chains that reload very fast, 8 s for a lead attack is very long.

Best elites you can consider in Factions are Assassins promise (energy management, hex requirement for black lotus strike, as well as full skill reload if enemy dies quick enough) and Moebius Strike (allows you to reload and spam usefull dual attacks such as Horn of the Hox and Critical Strike)

About pve Monks, I think I never ever met a PuG monk that used Protection skills. It makes my sin cry, and use Heroes.

Yanman.be · Jan 10, 2007, 11:12 AM // 11:12

I feel like writing an Assassin's code, describing the do's and don't's off this class.

Should handle topics like what skills not to (ab)use, how to get in range of your targets, picking your target( what probably is the problem here ), getting back into safety etc.

Ashe. · Jan 10, 2007, 12:04 PM // 12:04

I love my A/w...I'm usually the one who never dies.
I use:
3 attack skills, critical eye, sharpen daggers, deaths charge, heart of shadow, and shadows refuge.
I plan on switching in some stuff for critical eye and sharpen daggers later, but this build works for me.

Ashe. · Jan 10, 2007, 12:06 PM // 12:06

I love my A/w...I'm usually the one who never dies.
I use:
3 attack skills, critical eye, sharpen daggers, deaths charge, heart of shadow, and shadows refuge.
I plan on switching in some stuff for critical eye and sharpen daggers later, but this build works for me.

Dutch Masterr · Jan 10, 2007, 02:54 PM // 14:54

assassin's promise is good only in pve. cast is it a target that youre absolutley sure will die with your combo.

pingu666 · Jan 10, 2007, 03:08 PM // 15:08

theres some pretty sweet sinergy with paragons. command paragons

go for the eyes, stand your ground, anthem of flame, plus watch yourself (or wammo could take that)

healing breeze is nice for assassins and dervishes too :P

Muk Utep · Jan 10, 2007, 06:26 PM // 18:26

What's the deal with assassins? I asked myself the same question. I played one through about 2/3rd of the Factions campaign and ended up discarding the character. I can see how the class has potential, and I definitely wouldn't call it useless, but here are some of the things that made me go back to my warrior and my dervish when I want to melee:

(the following are my own opinions and perceptions, not claimed facts)

You do a lot of damage, but you don't really do tons. In fact I didn't feel that I did more than my warrior or dervish. You have a few nifty self-defense skills, but they're usually impractical or situational, not something you can keep up all the time or fully rely on. Your armor is low, your defensive skills have long recharge times (and are excessively conditional) and you don't really add anything to the team other than raw damage. In other words, this is a glass cannon, comparable to the rogue of WoW in the era where hunters and warriors did roughly as much damage as them (do they still?).

I'm mainly a PvE player, and the assassin isn't particularly suited for PvE. You don't have any practical means to combat the defensive stances that so many of the enemies in this game have, unless you pick a specific secondary profession that is otherwise not that great for the assassin. You have limited defense against conditions/hexes and unwanted aggro, and usually they're skills that won't improve your bar. You're very dependant on others, and since I play with heroes/henchmen most of the time, I don't want to depend too much on anyone but myself.

You rely completely on uninterrupted attack chains, and if one link of the chain is broken/inaccessible, you basically suck. I tried using a build that relied on the opponent being hexed, but it just wasn't efficient when enemies instantly remove hexes as soon as they're applied. If one of your attack skills are disabled, you're dead weight for a while. If your opponent is immune to one of the aspects that you base your power on (such as knockdown) then you're not particularly useful. In short, many things in PvE can make your build obsolete in certain areas, and while my assassin worked nicely in areas where he was not restricted, I felt too often that fundamental PvE design or the superhuman reflexes of AI made my character insufficient.

Oh, and they run as if they've pooped their pants. What is with that?!

Yanman.be · Jan 10, 2007, 06:45 PM // 18:45

They run like that Muk Utep, because they want to keep a low profile.

Muk Utep · Jan 10, 2007, 06:47 PM // 18:47

But it doesn't work.

Sqube · Jan 10, 2007, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Muk Utep, the following are my own opinions based on your post:

Quote:

You do a lot of damage, but you don't really do tons. In fact I didn't feel that I did more than my warrior or dervish.

I'm not aware of any warrior or dervish attack combinations that can do damage like BSS --> TF --> BLS --> BoS/DB/Moebius/whatever. Could you give some examples?

I agree with you on defensive skills and low AL. I wouldn't mind seeing a boost.

The /W secondary is great for Assassins. There's a lot of useful stuff in /N as well; those two secondaries let you bring Wild Blow or Rigor Mortis, which handles blocking, evasion, and stances in general.

The hex issue is purely a function of what hex you're using, if you're going in first and placing your hex before anyone else on your team does anything, or what. If you're that worried about it, use Parasitic Bond. Nothing will be able to remove that as quickly as you'll be able to put it on and start a combo.

I mostly agree with you on the situationality of Assassins. They're really just not suited for Cantha. They do better in Tyria and Elona.

I don't know what that run style is about either. I'm not too crazy about it myself.